Today I read an interesting article about a newspaper for the German speaking Mennonite communities in both north and South America, published twice a month in Canada and circulating about 10,000 copies as far as Bolivia. As far as I can tell, the newspaper is written in hoch Deutsch. I thought that was interesting because I think these Mennonite communities primarily based their German on the Bible of Martin Luther from 1520 and on dialect, they spoke in Mountain villages before migrating. I think I’ve heard bits of Menonite German in the Americas and it sounds very strange to me, almost like suizer deutch. Can you discuss how the Mennonite German of the America sounds, and how that might be pertinent for the widely circulated newspaper in high German.
ChatGPT said:
Excellent observation — and yes, the linguistic tension you noticed between Mennonite “Low German” dialects and the Hochdeutsch (High German) of Die Mennonitische Post is at the heart of how this transcontinental newspaper works.
Here’s the background and the sound-world behind it:
🗣️ The Sound of Mennonite German
Most Mennonites in the Americas descend from groups that left northern Germany and the Low Countries in the 1500–1700s. They brought with them a dialect known today as Plautdietsch (“Low German” or “Flat German”).
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Plautdietsch isn’t a dialect of Hochdeutsch at all — it’s a branch of Low Saxon, historically spoken around Danzig and the Vistula delta.
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Phonetically, it’s softer and more sing-song than Standard German: it drops final consonants, uses diphthongs like iea and oua, and has distinctive vowels — closer to Frisian or Dutch than to modern Hochdeutsch.
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When outsiders hear it, they often think it sounds Swiss or Alsatian, because it’s full of lilting vowel shifts and unfamiliar rhythm, and because it’s mutually unintelligible with standard German unless you’ve had exposure.
Example:
“Ikj goa no Huam” (Plautdietsch) ≈ Ich gehe nach Hause (Hochdeutsch)
📰 Why the Newspaper Uses Hochdeutsch
When Mennonites migrated — first to Russia (Ukraine), then to Canada, Mexico, Paraguay, and Bolivia — their spoken language remained Plautdietsch, but religion and literacy were anchored in the Luther Bible and formal German catechisms.
By the 20th century, literacy in Hochdeutsch had become the shared written standard for all Mennonite colonies, even though no one spoke it at home. It became a kind of sacred lingua franca — understood for reading and preaching, but not used conversationally.
So Die Mennonitische Post uses Standard (High) German:
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It is the only form all colonies can read — unifying Bolivia, Belize, Mexico, Canada, and the U.S.
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It preserves connection to German religious and literary heritage (Luther, hymnals, the Bible).
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It avoids choosing one regional dialect over another, since even Plautdietsch itself has regional variants.
🌍 Cultural and Linguistic Implications
The result is a diglossic culture — two languages serving two worlds:
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Plautdietsch → everyday speech, family, humor, oral storytelling.
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Hochdeutsch → religion, schoolbooks, print media, and communication across distant colonies.
For a Bolivian Mennonite farmer, reading Die Mennonitische Post is a bit like a modern Greek reading in ancient Greek: formally correct, familiar through scripture, yet distinctly not the spoken idiom of daily life.
✳️ In Short
The newspaper’s use of High German is both practical and symbolic — it’s what binds together far-flung Mennonite communities that might otherwise be linguistically isolated by their evolving Plautdietsch dialects. The dialect itself, melodic and archaic, reflects centuries of insulation from both modern German and English, while the Post preserves a bridge to a shared, scriptural German heritage.
If you’d like, I can provide a short audio comparison of Plautdietsch vs. Hochdeutsch to illustrate how different they sound — would you like me to find that?
You said:
ChatGPT said:
Exactly — that’s a very apt comparison.
Just as Arabic speakers navigate between colloquial (ʿāmmiyya) dialects for daily life and Classical or Modern Standard Arabic (fuṣḥā) for scripture, education, and formal writing, Mennonite communities live in a state of diglossia between:
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Plautdietsch (Low German) → the spoken, intimate, village language — used at home, in markets, and among friends.
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Hochdeutsch (High German) → the written and sacred language — used in the Bible, hymns, sermons, and newspapers like Die Mennonitische Post.
Both sides of the pair serve distinct purposes:
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Plautdietsch maintains identity and oral tradition, often evolving with contact languages (Spanish, English).
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High German maintains literacy and cohesion across continents — a kind of spiritual and cultural glue.
So when a Mennonite in Bolivia reads Die Mennonitische Post, it’s a bit like an Egyptian reading a newspaper in Modern Standard Arabic: completely intelligible in writing, but not the way anyone actually talks at home.
Would you like me to sketch a few concrete examples — say, a line of Plautdietsch next to High German and English — to show how that diglossia looks in practice?
You said:
ChatGPT said:
That’s a really insightful question — and yes, the Luther Bible plays almost exactly the same cultural role in German as the King James Bible or Shakespeare does in English: foundational, dignified, and archaic in tone, but still broadly intelligible with some effort.
Let’s unpack that a bit:
🕰️ Historical Context
Martin Luther translated the Bible between 1521 and 1534, using a blend of dialects centered on Early New High German, particularly the Saxon chancery dialect (the administrative written German of the time).
His goal was to make Scripture accessible — to unify German speakers under a clear, elegant, and emotionally resonant written form. In doing so, he more or less created modern written German.
📖 How It Differs from Modern German
The language of Luther’s Bible:
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Vocabulary: slightly archaic but mostly recognizable (e.g., Weib for “woman” instead of Frau, Kindeskinder for “grandchildren”).
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Word order: often more poetic or Latinate — longer clauses, inversions, and compound phrases.
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Orthography: pre-standardized spelling, e.g. thun instead of tun (“to do”), Jesu instead of Jesus.
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Sound and rhythm: rich and cadenced, designed for reading aloud — similar to the sonorous rhythm of the King James Bible.
So, a modern German speaker can read the Luther Bible fluently, just as an English speaker can read the King James Bible or Shakespeare. It feels old-fashioned and grand, not unintelligible.
Example:
| Luther (1545) | Modern German | English |
|---|---|---|
| Im Anfang schuf Gott Himmel und Erde. | Am Anfang schuf Gott Himmel und Erde. | In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
| Und das Licht scheint in der Finsternis; und die Finsternis hat's nicht begriffen. | Und das Licht scheint in der Finsternis, und die Finsternis hat es nicht erfasst. | And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. |
Pretty close, right? It’s elevated, but still comprehensible.
🪶 For Mennonites
For conservative Mennonite groups, the Luther Bible (often the 1545 or 1912 revision) remains the religious standard, even for communities that now speak Plautdietsch, Spanish, or English in daily life.
It ties them to:
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the Reformation-era roots of their faith,
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a shared sacred language that transcends dialects,
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and a sense of continuity with their German heritage — even for those who haven’t lived in a German-speaking country for 200 years.
🎭 Analogy
So yes — reading the Luther Bible for them is very much like an English speaker reading Shakespeare or the King James Bible:
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A little archaic in diction and structure,
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Revered for its moral authority and rhythm,
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And still close enough to the modern language that its meaning is transparent — especially if you grew up hearing it in church.
Would you like me to show a short Psalm passage side-by-side in Luther German, Modern German, and English to illustrate how they differ in tone and rhythm?
You said:
ChatGPT said:
Perfect — let’s take one of the most famous and lyrical examples, Psalm 23 (“The Lord is my Shepherd”), which beautifully shows the evolution from Luther’s 16th-century German to modern German and then to English.
🕊️ Psalm 23: Luther Bible (1545)
1. Der HERR ist mein Hirte, mir wird nichts mangeln.
2. Er weidet mich auf einer grünen Aue und führet mich zum frischen Wasser.
3. Er erquicket meine Seele; er führet mich auf rechter Straße um seines Namens willen.
4. Und ob ich schon wanderte im finstern Tal, fürchte ich kein Unglück; denn du bist bei mir, dein Stecken und Stab trösten mich.
Notes:
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Aue (meadow) and erquicket (revives) are slightly archaic.
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The rhythm and cadence are deliberately oral — designed to be read aloud from the pulpit.
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Grammar and syntax are Early New High German, but entirely understandable today.
📜 Modern German (Luther Revision or Einheitsübersetzung)
1. Der Herr ist mein Hirte, nichts wird mir fehlen.
2. Er lässt mich lagern auf grünen Auen und führt mich zum Ruheplatz am Wasser.
3. Er stillt mein Verlangen; er leitet mich auf rechten Pfaden, treu seinem Namen.
4. Auch wenn ich gehe durch das finstere Tal, ich fürchte kein Unheil; denn du bist bei mir, dein Stock und dein Stab geben mir Halt.
Notes:
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Vocabulary is smoother and more explanatory (Ruheplatz am Wasser, gibt mir Halt).
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Modern spelling and syntax.
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Still recognizably poetic but less archaic.
🇬🇧 English (King James Version, 1611)
1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
✳️ Comparison
| Feature | Luther (1545) | Modern German | King James (1611) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tone | Archaic but musical | Clear, contemporary | Archaic, stately |
| Syntax | Compact, inverted | Smooth, modern order | Elevated, parallel phrasing |
| Function | Sacred & literary | Liturgical & accessible | Sacred & literary |
So when a Mennonite congregation reads the Luther Bible, they’re experiencing the German equivalent of the King James Bible — elevated, timeless, and rooted in an older idiom that shaped the very language they now speak.
Would you like me to show the same passage in Plautdietsch next, so you can hear how distant the everyday Mennonite dialect sounds from both Luther and modern German?
You said:
ChatGPT said:
Excellent — here’s where things get really interesting.
Let’s look at Psalm 23:1–4 again, now adding a version in Plautdietsch (Mennonite Low German), alongside Luther (1545), Modern German, and English.
🕊️ Psalm 23 in Four Languages
| Version | Text |
|---|---|
| Plautdietsch (Mennonite Low German) | 1. De Herr es mien Scheper, ekj woa keen Not haben. 2. He läd mie daun up grüene Weeden, he feert mie aun de stille Wota. 3. He fräischt mie Seele; he feert mie op rechte Weeg, um sien Noom wille. 4. Ewa ekj ok jange dörch en daal voll Schatte, ekj fürchte keen Scheel; denn du büst bie mie, dien Steek un dien Stab troost mie. |
| Luther Bible (1545) | 1. Der HERR ist mein Hirte, mir wird nichts mangeln. 2. Er weidet mich auf einer grünen Aue und führet mich zum frischen Wasser. 3. Er erquicket meine Seele; er führet mich auf rechter Straße um seines Namens willen. 4. Und ob ich schon wanderte im finstern Tal, fürchte ich kein Unglück; denn du bist bei mir, dein Stecken und Stab trösten mich. |
| Modern German (Einheitsübersetzung) | 1. Der Herr ist mein Hirte, nichts wird mir fehlen. 2. Er lässt mich lagern auf grünen Auen und führt mich zum Ruheplatz am Wasser. 3. Er stillt mein Verlangen; er leitet mich auf rechten Pfaden, treu seinem Namen. 4. Auch wenn ich gehe durch das finstere Tal, ich fürchte kein Unheil; denn du bist bei mir, dein Stock und dein Stab geben mir Halt. |
| English (King James) | 1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. |
🎧 What You Notice in the Plautdietsch
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Sound & spelling: Words like mien, woa, ekj, he, bie mie sound almost Dutch or Frisian.
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Grammar: It keeps older Low Saxon forms (e.g., mien instead of mein; he feert for er führt).
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Rhythm: Much more oral and village-like; you can imagine it being spoken around a kitchen table, not from a pulpit.
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Influences: Many Plautdietsch speakers today mix in Spanish (Gracias, Trabajo) or English loanwords depending on country.
🪶 Summary
You can think of these relationships roughly like this:
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Plautdietsch → everyday speech (like a regional English dialect: Scots, or Appalachian).
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Luther Bible German → the sacred, literary foundation (like Shakespeare or King James).
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Modern German → standardized, 20th-century version for schools, newspapers, and formal writing.
So when Die Mennonitische Post prints in High German, it’s speaking in the shared “Bible language” all readers recognize, even if their homes and hearts sound more like the Plautdietsch above.
Would you like me to show how Plautdietsch sounds phonetically — like a few lines written out in an approximate IPA or phonetic English spelling? It helps reveal how different it is to the ear.
You said:
ChatGPT said:
That’s a wonderful and perceptive observation — and you’re absolutely right.
What you’re hearing in Plautdietsch (or Plattdeutsch, broadly speaking) are deep structural echoes of English, because both languages share the same West Germanic root before their paths diverged roughly 1,200–1,500 years ago.
Let’s unpack why you intuitively “catch” bits of it that you don’t in Hochdeutsch:
🧬 1. Common Ancestry with English
Old English and Low German (the ancestor of Plautdietsch) are sister languages — not one descended from the other, but both descended from early West Germanic.
By contrast, High German (Hochdeutsch) underwent a massive “sound shift” — the High German Consonant Shift — that separated it from both English and Low German.
| Concept | English | Plautdietsch (Low German) | Hochdeutsch (High German) |
|---|---|---|---|
| make | maken | maken | machen |
| apple | Appel | Appel | Apfel |
| water | Water | Wota | Wasser |
| path/way | way | Weeg | Weg |
| that | dat | daut | das |
So when you read He feert mie aun de stille Wota (“He leads me beside the still waters”), your ear catches familiar sounds and syntax that modern German has shifted away from.
🗣️ 2. Pronunciation and Rhythm
Plautdietsch preserves older, softer consonants:
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p and t instead of German pf and z.
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k stays k (instead of shifting to ch or h).
It also sounds more Anglo-Frisian in rhythm — more syllabic and less clipped.
Compare:
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Hochdeutsch: Ich fürchte kein Unglück
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Plautdietsch: Ekj fürchte keen Scheel
That keen Scheel almost feels like no evil — same structure, similar rhythm.
🧩 3. Word Order
Plautdietsch often uses a simpler, more direct word order than High German.
Where Hochdeutsch loves to send verbs to the end (…weil ich es nicht machen kann), Plautdietsch often keeps them in Subject–Verb–Object order, like English (weil ekj daut nich kann maken).
That makes it feel more transparent to an English speaker — you recognize the skeleton of the sentence.
🕰️ 4. A “Time Capsule” of Proto-English German
Think of Plautdietsch as a living cousin of Old English.
If you read Beowulf or an Old English psalm, you’ll find the same family traits:
Þæt wæs gōd cyning → Dat was en good Keening → That was a good king.
So when Plautdietsch sounds “a little bit English,” it’s because it and English froze in time on the same branch before High German’s big sound shift pushed it further away.
🪶 In Short
Your ear isn’t playing tricks on you — it’s picking up genetic similarities between Low German and English that are buried under the later history of Standard German.
In fact, linguists often tell students that Low German is the closest living relative of English still spoken on the continent of Europe.
Would you like me to show a short side-by-side comparison — say, a few everyday sentences in Plautdietsch, Old English, and Modern English — to see how directly those connections line up?
